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	<title>Comments on: Confirmed: Toyota does Waterfall</title>
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	<link>http://www.xqa.com.ar/visualmanagement/2009/04/confirmed-toyota-does-waterfall/</link>
	<description>Using information visualization to manage agile projects</description>
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		<title>By: Clifford Calcutt</title>
		<link>http://www.xqa.com.ar/visualmanagement/2009/04/confirmed-toyota-does-waterfall/comment-page-1/#comment-4705</link>
		<dc:creator>Clifford Calcutt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 08:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Given the recent quality issues at Toyota it is interesting to see Geert&#039;s comments above, from the inside of a development. 

My belief is that most of the TPS tools we are all familiar with (Kaizan, Kanban etc) simply do not relate to the new product development (NPD) process, they relate to the production process, which in their industry is very separate to the earlier NPD process. 

I have always felt it makes more sense to compare the software development process with &quot;new product development&quot; rather than production. In which case rather than adapt TPS to software development we might do better to look at Set Based Concurrent Engineering (SBCE).

&quot;The Toyota Product Development System&quot; by Morgan and Liker describes their approach to NPD, which is very based around (SBCE).

Unfortunately I think Nick&#039;s comments about software dev being a problem to most senior managers (whether they are in Toyota or not) might well apply. 

Sounds as if they do not even use their &quot;normal&quot; NPD approach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given the recent quality issues at Toyota it is interesting to see Geert&#8217;s comments above, from the inside of a development. </p>
<p>My belief is that most of the TPS tools we are all familiar with (Kaizan, Kanban etc) simply do not relate to the new product development (NPD) process, they relate to the production process, which in their industry is very separate to the earlier NPD process. </p>
<p>I have always felt it makes more sense to compare the software development process with &#8220;new product development&#8221; rather than production. In which case rather than adapt TPS to software development we might do better to look at Set Based Concurrent Engineering (SBCE).</p>
<p>&#8220;The Toyota Product Development System&#8221; by Morgan and Liker describes their approach to NPD, which is very based around (SBCE).</p>
<p>Unfortunately I think Nick&#8217;s comments about software dev being a problem to most senior managers (whether they are in Toyota or not) might well apply. </p>
<p>Sounds as if they do not even use their &#8220;normal&#8221; NPD approach.</p>
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		<title>By: Henrik Kniberg</title>
		<link>http://www.xqa.com.ar/visualmanagement/2009/04/confirmed-toyota-does-waterfall/comment-page-1/#comment-4695</link>
		<dc:creator>Henrik Kniberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 18:21:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I finally found the time to describe in more detail what we learned about Toyota&#039;s software development process during our visit. Here&#039;s the article &quot;Toyota&#039;s journey from Waterfall to Lean software development&quot;:
http://blog.crisp.se/henrikkniberg/2010/03/16/1268757660000.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I finally found the time to describe in more detail what we learned about Toyota&#8217;s software development process during our visit. Here&#8217;s the article &#8220;Toyota&#8217;s journey from Waterfall to Lean software development&#8221;:<br />
<a href="http://blog.crisp.se/henrikkniberg/2010/03/16/1268757660000.html" rel="nofollow">http://blog.crisp.se/henrikkniberg/2010/03/16/1268757660000.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ross</title>
		<link>http://www.xqa.com.ar/visualmanagement/2009/04/confirmed-toyota-does-waterfall/comment-page-1/#comment-4443</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 02:29:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks to Alan Dayley for directing me to this posting. I can understand why TPS is not the model for software development at Toyota. It has taken folks like Mary to help adapt the decidedly linear process model that is TPS in manufacturing to the software development paradigm. 

Since in software development one is rarely producing the same component twice (with reuse exceptions) this differs greatly from manufacturing where each component is intended to be like the previous. Pride of product quality by each individual spawns continuous improvement on the method and delivery upon demand removes waste; these are hallmarks of the method.

PDCA is foundational to TPS and to agile. TPS is extremely focused on metrics for &quot;in process&quot; control of quality. It is extremely difficult to find these in process metrics in software development. For instance if a automotive part is being created an operator can immediately measure in process to determine if the product is out of spec. The same is difficult in software as the creation is largely a thought exercise and the &quot;spec&quot; in not so well measured. So in agile we compensate for this by focusing on the process of development rather that the in process development of the product (with the exception some XP and PSP practices). We expose those products to early integration to then test the product quality, but defects can only be detected very early not predicted or prevented.

It will be very interesting to watch how companies like Toyota, with there relentless focus on effective production and quality, react to recent events that challenge the presumption of quality. Additionally as automobiles (and other Toyota products) become much more software based, it will be interesting to see how TPS is rolled into a software development methodology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks to Alan Dayley for directing me to this posting. I can understand why TPS is not the model for software development at Toyota. It has taken folks like Mary to help adapt the decidedly linear process model that is TPS in manufacturing to the software development paradigm. </p>
<p>Since in software development one is rarely producing the same component twice (with reuse exceptions) this differs greatly from manufacturing where each component is intended to be like the previous. Pride of product quality by each individual spawns continuous improvement on the method and delivery upon demand removes waste; these are hallmarks of the method.</p>
<p>PDCA is foundational to TPS and to agile. TPS is extremely focused on metrics for &#8220;in process&#8221; control of quality. It is extremely difficult to find these in process metrics in software development. For instance if a automotive part is being created an operator can immediately measure in process to determine if the product is out of spec. The same is difficult in software as the creation is largely a thought exercise and the &#8220;spec&#8221; in not so well measured. So in agile we compensate for this by focusing on the process of development rather that the in process development of the product (with the exception some XP and PSP practices). We expose those products to early integration to then test the product quality, but defects can only be detected very early not predicted or prevented.</p>
<p>It will be very interesting to watch how companies like Toyota, with there relentless focus on effective production and quality, react to recent events that challenge the presumption of quality. Additionally as automobiles (and other Toyota products) become much more software based, it will be interesting to see how TPS is rolled into a software development methodology.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Karamolegos</title>
		<link>http://www.xqa.com.ar/visualmanagement/2009/04/confirmed-toyota-does-waterfall/comment-page-1/#comment-4188</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Karamolegos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 11:38:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xqa.com.ar/visualmanagement/?p=326#comment-4188</guid>
		<description>I am wandering if the fact that Toyota&#039;s IT does not follow the TPS principles (Lean and Agile in this case) possibly proves that Toyota, as many other enterprises, either does not consider IT as a vital part or its top management considers IT as a magical box and does not touch it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am wandering if the fact that Toyota&#8217;s IT does not follow the TPS principles (Lean and Agile in this case) possibly proves that Toyota, as many other enterprises, either does not consider IT as a vital part or its top management considers IT as a magical box and does not touch it.</p>
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		<title>By: Geert Acke</title>
		<link>http://www.xqa.com.ar/visualmanagement/2009/04/confirmed-toyota-does-waterfall/comment-page-1/#comment-885</link>
		<dc:creator>Geert Acke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 20:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xqa.com.ar/visualmanagement/?p=326#comment-885</guid>
		<description>I worked for Toyota in 2006/2007 on a Very Large Software Project and they worked purely waterfall.  In theory they have a process called TUP, based on RUP, but they actually don&#039;t follow that.  

Indeed they use PDCA cycles, but only in a reactive way when management tries to find a way out of trouble.

I&#039;m quite convinced a scrum type of management would haved saved them heaps of mony on that particular project...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I worked for Toyota in 2006/2007 on a Very Large Software Project and they worked purely waterfall.  In theory they have a process called TUP, based on RUP, but they actually don&#8217;t follow that.  </p>
<p>Indeed they use PDCA cycles, but only in a reactive way when management tries to find a way out of trouble.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m quite convinced a scrum type of management would haved saved them heaps of mony on that particular project&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Vasco Duarte</title>
		<link>http://www.xqa.com.ar/visualmanagement/2009/04/confirmed-toyota-does-waterfall/comment-page-1/#comment-813</link>
		<dc:creator>Vasco Duarte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 08:19:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xqa.com.ar/visualmanagement/?p=326#comment-813</guid>
		<description>I commented on this thread that started with JetBrains&#039; blog article on the whole &quot;Toyota does Waterfall&quot; diatribe.

It&#039;s not really &quot;Waterfall&quot; as we know it, of course, as Mary says in your blog post quote. 

Check out my review of this discussion and associated comments here: http://softwaredevelopmenttoday.blogspot.com/2009/04/does-toyota-really-use-waterfall-for.html#comments</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I commented on this thread that started with JetBrains&#8217; blog article on the whole &#8220;Toyota does Waterfall&#8221; diatribe.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not really &#8220;Waterfall&#8221; as we know it, of course, as Mary says in your blog post quote. </p>
<p>Check out my review of this discussion and associated comments here: <a href="http://softwaredevelopmenttoday.blogspot.com/2009/04/does-toyota-really-use-waterfall-for.html#comments" rel="nofollow">http://softwaredevelopmenttoday.blogspot.com/2009/04/does-toyota-really-use-waterfall-for.html#comments</a></p>
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